Oral History Project Name: Memories of Life and Work in Central Scotland
Interview Status: Restricted
Name of Interviewee: Murdoch [Redacted]
Interviewee’s Date of Birth: 16/01/1920
Name of Interviewer: Dr Peggy Herbert
In attendance: Catriona [Redacted]
Date of Interview: 19/08/1971
Length of Interview: 31 minutes 13 seconds
Place of Interview: Denny, Scotland
Language of Interview: English
NOTE: Access to this interview has hitherto been restricted due to unprofessional conduct on the part of the interviewer. In the interests of renewed historical research into this period, these restrictions have been lifted as of 19/08/2021, 50 years after the interview was first recorded. A transcribed extract is provided below.
00:16:23
Interviewer: You were saying about being—
Murdoch: Down the pits, aye. Three years I worked there. Terrible place. I was just a lad, not long past fourteen, sent out into the world to make my own way. Found myself in the mine, riding the hutches, before I knew it! It was hard work. Dangerous too. ‘Kittle’ the men called it. Meant risky or dodgy, ye ken? The whole bloody enterprise was kittle. Men and young lads just like me were hurt all the time.
Interviewer: ‘Hurt’? How were they hurt?
Murdoch: Ach. Too many ways to name. Falling down shafts. Crushed by big stones. Electrocution. Burnt all over by gas, firedamp. Nearly every week there was an accident.
Interviewer: That sounds awful. Were people killed?
Murdoch: Oh, aye. Often. Folk said it was worse before I was born, during the first war. Still, it was common even in the ‘30s. I saw all sorts. One man was caught trying to bring his pipe and tobacco into the pit – can you imagine? He was let go on the spot.
Interviewer: Because such items could ignite gas? The firedamp you mentioned?
Murdoch: That’s right.
Interviewer: Can you tell me about a time in which a miner was killed?
Murdoch: Have you got all day? Let me think. Well, there were these guys called shankers, right? They wore wide-brimmed metal helmets that were supposed to protect their neck and shoulders from falling rocks and stones. Didn’t do them much good when a whole shaft came in, I’ll tell you that. Once, when I was acting as onsetter at the cage, a shanker and his son were buried in a passageway. Entombed, so they were. I shot out of the shaft as if the devil himself was on my tail, but we were all sent back in to dig them out. The entire time I was terrified the whole pit would collapse on us.
Interviewer: Did you manage to get them out?
Murdoch: Well…yes and no. The son was dead by the time we reached them. The father badly hurt. Internally, ye ken? And a broken leg I think. He died a couple of weeks later in hospital.
Interviewer: How old was the son?
Murdoch: A bit younger than me at the time. Twelve, thirteen, maybe?
Interviewer: And it was common for children to work in the pits alongside their parents?
Murdoch: Oh aye, it was all part of learning the trade. The boy was to be a shanker just like his old man. Like his grandfather before him.
Interviewer: What was the worst accident you saw?
Murdoch: The worst… Ah, I don’t like to talk about it. But…[Pause] Is it really that important?
Interviewer: Yes. I know this might be difficult, but it’s all part of capturing that time, both the good and bad.
Murdoch: Well, bad is right. It was a bad time, a bad place. The worst accident I ever saw… A friend of mine, Danny [Redacted]. It has to be Danny. He… he fell onto the tracks and a runaway rake of about ten empty hutches passed… over his body. He was nearly… [Pause]
Interviewer: Take your time.
Murdoch: [Deep breath, clearing of throat] Sorry. He was nearly…cut in half. Aye, that he was. Why does that bother me, so many years on, do you suppose? [Blows his nose]
Interviewer: It sounds like a tramautic event, Murdoch. I’m sorry you had to experience that. How close were you to Danny?
Murdoch: Close, aye. He was from my village near Strathpeffer. We both left to work at the pits the same summer.
Interviewer: So you grew up—
Murdoch: Aye, grew up together. Do you know the area yourself? Your accent is—
Interviewer: No, no, I grew up in Kippen, just outside Stirling. You were saying? About Danny?
Murdoch: Kippen… Your voice is familiar somehow. Anyway, aye, Danny. A horrible thing what happened to him. Horrible. [Long pause] I didn’t like that job. God knows, I had many jobs that I didn’t like, but that was the worst. The pits, as they say. Do you like your job?
Interviewer: We’re not here to talk about me, Murdoch. But yes, I do.
Murdoch: You do? That’s good. It’s all work really, when I look back. I’ve done a lot of work in my life. Too much obviously as it’s all I can remember! Good that you enjoy it though.
Interview: Yes. Can we go back to Danny? I’d like to—
Murdoch: Danny? What else is there to tell?
Interviewer: Well, perhaps you could expand on the manner of his death? Was he—
Murdoch: No, I’ve told you all I know. All that I saw.
Interviewer: Are you sure?
Murdoch: Yes! I am quite sure! Ask me something else. Or would you rather we call it quits now?
Interviewer: No, no, let’s move on. I do still have some questions about the pits, if you don’t mind? Can you tell me anything about the ‘black spit’? From the mines. The dust. Have you suffered from it yourself?
Murdoch: Hmm, no, I don’t suppose I worked there long enough for that. I was only there about five years. But I saw many folk coughing up this minging black phlegm often enough. With a few of the older boys… it clogged them right up. They couldn’t breathe. Or they could, but the effort was too much. You could see the strain on their faces. If you saw that, you wouldn’t see them again many more times.
Interviewer: There were other fatalities then, beyond the accidents. Unrecorded, maybe. What other accidents happened in the pits?
Murdoch: [Sighs] I don’t know. Look, have I not told you enough about those days? Do you really want to hear about the time I saw a man crushed by a cage coming down a shaft? Or the time I saw a man on the floor, naked, his clothes blasted off, skin all burnt and peeling? Is that it? Is that what you’re here for?
Interviewer: No, no. Forgive my curiosity, Murdoch, it’s just… it’s my research. But of course, we can change topic for a while.
Murdoch: For good, I’d prefer.
Interviewer: As you say. So, tell me about your subsequent work.
Murdoch: Yes, well, first it was the pits, then when I was seventeen the Water Board. After that the Gas Board, the petrol station, and finally the chip shop. Work, work, work, as I say. I liked the Water Board. We’d go up into the hills to check the gauges and the levels. Fresh air, smashing views. We’d go for a dip in lochans if it was warm. It was just like going for a nice walk, except you’d get paid!
Interviewer: Welcome respite from the pits I’m sure. Go on. Tell me more.
Murdoch: Uh huh, it was all-weathers though. One time up a hill near Loch Tay it started snowing – a full blizzard actually – and we nearly didn’t get back down. Up to my oxters, so I was! But overall, that was a good job, aye. Next was the Gas Board. It was alright. I was the Safety Officer for much of the Central Belt. Only did that for a couple years.
Interviewer: Why didn’t you do that job longer?
Murdoch: I wasn’t right for it, really. One time a worker got trapped in a pipeline and I was called in to help get him out, but… I couldn’t. Couldn’t do it. I was sent away, no help to anyone.
Interviewer: What happened? Why couldn’t you help?
Murdoch: Can’t you work it out for yourself, doctor?
Interviewer: I don’t want to presume, but if you don’t want—
Murdoch: I was thinking of the pits. That father and son who were trapped. Danny too, I suppose. All the others. The tight spaces. It was too much, too similar.
Interviewer: What happened to the man trapped in the pipeline?
Murdoch: Ach, they sent in someone else from my team. They got him out safe and sound. But I was the bloody Safety Officer, okay? Me! It was my job! I wasn’t in the right frame of mind then. I moved on not long after that. Got an opportunity to buy up the old petrol station. Enjoyed that for a fair few years. It was easy enough work and essential, eh? People need their petrol, after all. But apart from the pits, the chip shop was the hardest, would you believe? My first marriage…it broke down because I was working such long hours. 7 in the morning to 9 at night, most days. My wife at the time, she didn’t like that. Barely saw her through the week. So she saw other… [Pause]
Interviewer: ‘Other’?
Murdoch: Nevermind.
Interviewer: Okay, well, that sounds like a difficult time, Murdoch. Looking back, how did that make you feel?
Murdoch: Oh, it was hard, right enough. But I’m not sure Catriona wants to hear about all that.
Catriona: [Distantly] Well, she is dead now so I don’t suppose it matters much.
Murdoch: No, I don’t suppose it does. But it was a long time ago any road.
Interviewer: What was your first wife’s name?
Murdoch: Siobhan.
Interviewer: And how did you meet?
Murdoch: Ah. School sweethearts, so we were. She came to join me nine months after I started working in the pits, the next spring after I left the village. But we married too young. I was 16, she was a few months older. We didn’t know the world well enough yet.
Interviewer: How long were you married?
Murdoch: Seven years. Separated in ’43. Would that be right, Catriona? She knows dates better than me.
Catriona: Yes, we met in ’52 and you’d been divorced nine years by then.
Murdoch: Aye, that’s right.
Interviewer: Catriona mentioned Siobhan has passed away. How did she die? And when?
Murdoch: I got word she died a few years ago. Lung disease, I believe. She’d remarried and lived in Peterhead.
Interviewer: I see. Did Siobhan and Danny [Redacted] know each other? You would have all grown up in the same village after all.
Murdoch: [Long pause] I…I suppose they did, yes. Don’t really remember. Your questions are getting strange, doctor. For Catriona’s sake, let’s change the subject please.
Interviewer: Okay, Murdoch. Let’s go back to the pits.
Murdoch: Again! You must be joking! I told you before I’ve said my piece on that topic.
Interviewer: I’m afraid I must please… insist that we revisit the death of Danny [Redacted]—
Murdoch: Why?
Interviewer: Well, you may—you may be interested to hear… I have received a different retelling of the circumstances of his death. From another miner who was there, or claims to have been. Do you know what I’m talking about?
Murdoch: No.
Interviewer: Are you sure, Murdoch?
Catriona: Why are you asking these questions? We didn’t agree to—
Murdoch: Catriona—
Catriona: Murdoch, is this upsetting you? Maybe it’s time—
Murdoch: Keep out of it, woman! Say your piece, doctor.
Interviewer: I—I am not setting out to accuse you, Murdoch. It might just be hearsay. Wouldn’t you rather know what’s being said about you? Think of your rep—
Murdoch: Get on with it!
Interviewer: As you wish. I recently spoke with another miner. One of your old colleagues. They told me that you and Danny had a… falling out just before he died. He was your friend, yes, but also a rival. Danny was pursuing your sweetheart, Siobhan, wasn’t he?
Catriona: I think we’ve heard just about enou—[Sound of scraping chairs, a yell from Catriona, and a door slamming]
Murdoch: Sorry about that. About her. Carry on.
Interviewer: Are you quite—
Murdoch: Finish what you were saying, doctor. You’re in my house, you’re my guest. Carry on.
Interviewer: It may be better if—[Sound of thump, close] Alright. I heard… I heard that everyone in the pits knew about Danny and Siobhan. This…this old colleague of yours I spoke to—
Murdoch: What was his name? Roger? No, he’s long dead, of course. That snake Archie? He filled Siobhan’s head with lies and nonsense, made her leave.
Interviewer: I’m not at liberty to say who I’ve spoken to, you know that. Shall I continue? This colleague, he thought you probably just meant to scare Danny off the job. Injure him, perhaps. But when he saw you’d pulled the guard lever and let the rake run free… well, in his view what happened next was your fault. Yours alone. [Long pause] Is—is there any truth to that, Murdoch?
Murdoch: [Heavy sigh] Why do you care? Why are you troubling me with this? Why now?
Interviewer: If you must know, Murdoch, Danny was my brother.
Murdoch: I… I see. Your name—
Interviewer: I married, years ago. Took my husband’s.
Murdoch: Peggy. You grew up, didn’t you? So you did.
Interviewer: We all do. None of us stay eight years old forever. Although Danny will always be fourteen to me, the age he left with you. It was just supposed to be a summer, but I never saw him again. So? Is it true? Is that what really happened to Danny?
Murdoch: You want to know? You’re sure?
Interviewer: Yes.
Murdoch: Then turn that thing off.
[End of transcript]
Learn more about Ross on our Contributors’ Page.
(Photo: The Courier)
- It’s All Work by Ross Crawford - February 10, 2022